We know Jim Obergefell as the lead plaintiff in the U.S. Supreme Court case Obergefell v. Hodges, a case that recognized my right to marry Jeff Durham, a case that made Jim a public figure. Since the landmark decision on June 26, 2015, Jim has gone deep into his roles as an activist, speaker, author, wedding officiant, and entrepreneur. He founded Equality Vines, a wine label that supports and donates to civil rights organizations and equality for all.

I met Jim last year in Palm Springs at an equality event. He was kind enough to meet with me recently to discuss wine and community. He is our reminder that in the end, love wins.

Joey Wolosz:

What has changed in your life since the Supreme Court decision in June 2015?

Jim Obergefell: 

Honestly, everything about my life has changed. I went from someone who had a career as a software consultant to a life filled with a wine business, speaking engagements, and activism. I am a producer on a documentary series called Just Married. I’m also on the board of Family Equality and a published author. 

However, the main change in my life was John’s death. I went from being part of a couple that had been together for almost 21 years to being on my own and trying to figure out what life could be without him.

I also left Cincinnati, made a couple of moves, and ended up in my hometown of Sandusky, Ohio. I never thought I would move back to my hometown, but here I am.

I also ran for office. So yeah, my life has changed pretty much in every way possible.

JW:

Tell me about Equality Vines, the wines that you produce, and the concept behind it.

JO:

In 2015, I received a phone call from my now business partner, Matt Grove. He owned a winery in South Africa and imported wine into the US. He was thinking about doing something to honor his late aunt Marilyn. 

Marilyn had worked for NBC in New York in the 70s. She got about as high as she could as a woman in that industry in those days. One too many times a male colleague asked her to get him a cup of coffee. Marilyn had had enough. She filed and led the first major class action lawsuit for gender pay equality in the workplace. She passed away in 2012. Marilyn was a lesbian, and she had been with her partner for decades.

When Matt had this idea, the fight for marriage equality was really blowing up. There were court cases across the country, and there were legislative votes to give or affirm the right to marriage. 

Matt wanted this wine to donate to the fight for marriage equality. He googled “gay marriage,” and my name was the first thing that popped up as the plaintiff in the Supreme Court case Obergefell v. Hodges, and he tracked me down.

We met in Manhattan. Over dinner and several bottles of wine, we decided to launch Equality Vines. Our concept was to produce premium wines. We decided we would not throw mediocre wine in a bottle and slap a rainbow on it. It had to be premium wines and every wine would support an organization fighting for equality.

That was the genesis of our business: supporting the fight for equality and civil rights with premium wines. Our first wine, Love Wins Sparkling Rosé, was released in 2016. Since then, we have donated more than a quarter of a million dollars to our partner organizations. Our wines support women’s rights, immigrants’ rights, LGBTQ+ rights, and lots of other organizations. We’ll continue to expand the organizations our wines support.

Our Chardonnay, “Get Your Own Damn Coffee,” honors Matt’s aunt Marilyn. It supports a scholarship in her name at St. Edwards University in Austin, Texas. After she left NBC, she became a journalism professor at that school.

We are getting ready to launch a big wine project with Heather Dubrow from The Real Housewives of Orange County. We’re partnering with her to support Family Equality. Three of her four kids identify as LGBTQ+. Family Equality helps queer families and queer people who want to form or expand their families. 

The entire cast of Real Housewives was in Sonoma. They did some taping in the tasting room. We did a dosage with our winemaker for the sparkling wine, Love Wins. 

We had an event the next day in Windsor. Heather brought in her designer friends. They had all the housewives in a fashion show with the CEO of Family Equality and her wife in the show.

We’ll be launching those wines in June.

JW:

What is the state of the LGBTQ community in the US right now and what should we be doing?

JO:

Well, the most important thing we should do in every election year, not just in presidential election years, is vote. We need to be a more informed electorate. We need to understand the values of the people who are running for office, and we need to vote for the people who most closely align with our values. 

We can never expect to agree 100% with any politician. We don’t agree 100% with our partner, our spouse, or our parents, so we should never expect that from politicians. But there’s going to be a politician that clearly aligns more closely with our values.

I am concerned about the state of LGBTQ+ rights in the United States. We’ve had two Supreme Court justices put in writing and verbally stating that they think Obergefell v. Hodges, marriage equality, should be overturned. One of those justices, Clarence Thomas, put in writing in his concurring opinion of Dobbs, which took away a woman’s right to make decisions about her body, that Obergefell should be overturned. He wrote that Lawrence vs. Texas, which struck down anti-sodomy laws, should be looked at again. He also thinks Griswold, which affirmed the right to birth control, should be looked at again. Just from the Supreme Court, our rights are under attack.

Look at all of the laws that are being proposed across the country: “Don’t say gay,” trans bathroom laws, and laws to prevent trans kids from simply playing sports with their friends. We are under attack. I’m concerned about the queer community, I’m concerned about our rights. I’m concerned about our ability to actually be part of “We The People.” 

I also have to remind myself that, as scary as a lot of these things are, when I came out in 1992, or further back when I started undergraduate school in 1984, life for the queer community is significantly better today than it was then. Even though I’m worried about our rights, the attacks on our rights, and our community, things are still better than they were. I really have to remind myself and focus on that at times when I feel hopeless.

JW:

Do you think that we’re under attack more because we’re more visible now?

JO:  

Absolutely. I think with marriage equality and all of the other progress we have made as a community, the people who have held the reins of power for centuries are worried that they’re losing it. It’s not just aimed at the queer community, it’s aimed at all marginalized communities. They’re worried about losing the ability to control our government, to control our country. They are going after those rights, those marginalized communities.

Yes, we are much more visible than we were. Even looking at 10 years ago, we’re more visible. The people who are afraid of change, the people who think the queer community is evil and wrong, they’re lashing out. So yes, I do believe that one of the causes of the backlash we’re seeing is in response to the fact that we are more visible, we are more a part of our communities.

There are hundreds of thousands of same-sex marriages that have happened since Obergefell. v. Hodges. People across the country have a family member, a neighbor, a co-worker, or a friend, who is married to someone of the same sex. Yes, visibility is a great thing, but we also see that it brings about some bad things.

JW:  

Do you have a visceral reaction when you see a same-sex couple with their wedding rings, knowing the hand in making that happen?

JO:

Oh, I love it. One of the things I did before the decision came out in 2015 was I went online and clicked the “Ordain Me” button. I have three weddings coming up over the next few months that I’m officiating. I think I’ve now officiated 22 marriages for same-sex and opposite-sex couples. I love it. I feel like I’m part of those hundreds of thousands of marriages that have happened since Obergefell. v. Hodges. To be able to do it, in that ceremony, for a couple in front of their family and friends, their loved ones, it’s amazing. I just love it.

JW:

June is coming up. How will you celebrate Pride?

JO: 

June tends to be a busy month. I typically have several speaking engagements during the month of June. They come from businesses, employee resource groups, and speaking at pride events or being in pride parades. I just kind of let June happen the way it happens. I don’t make specific plans personally because so many things come up for me as a public figure.

JW:

Tell me about your connection to wine and food.

JO:  

My love for cooking started when I was in third grade and my mom started working at the public library. My older brother and I suddenly became responsible for cooking dinners for the family. So, I started cooking at that age. 

When I was an undergraduate, my roommate loved to cook. He introduced me to cooking different things, caring more about what I cooked. My connection to food started with my love of cooking, thanks to my mom going to work and my college roommate. 

When John and I became a couple, he liked that I cooked. I give John the credit for really introducing me to wine. I grew up in Ohio and was familiar with Ohio wines, which are typically sweet. Our favorite thing was champagne. We loved to drink champagne, anything sparkling. Sometimes people think they have to save this bottle for a special occasion. For John and me, waking up was a special occasion. We thought champagne was appropriate anytime.

We never know what tomorrow brings, that’s really the heart of it for me. I never expected John to get ALS. I never expected John to die at the age of 46. So you never know what’s going to happen. Don’t don’t put things off.

JW:  

Friends and family excluded, who are two people you’d like to share a long lingering meal with and what would you serve?

JO:  

George Michael and Keith Haring. I’d serve charcuterie, oysters, and some amazing champagne.

JW:

What are some of your creative outlets?

JO:  

I do a bit of oil painting and I’m getting back into it. I love photography and getting out with my camera, taking photos. I sing with the symphony chorus locally.

I also love working on the labels for the business, working with our graphic designer to come up with the designs, and tweaking them. 

I enjoy writing. I never thought I would be a published author or have essays and printed opinion pieces. It’s been fun to realize I’m a better writer than I thought.

JW:

What is the animal you most identify with?

JO: 

A koala bear.

JW:

What is your motto?

JO:

Don’t live a life of regret.